Two thoughts. One is that I think many parts of our culture center around pretending to be somewhere else. Calling someone on the phone with their voice speaking in your ear is mimicking that they're next to you, saying those words. Watching a movie uses your senses to transport you to another place. Reading a book puts you inside the minds of other people. I think VR is similar, and is using more senses to increase the power of the experience. When handling something powerful, I think it's important to reflect on whether it's overpowering you, or whether you're able to maintain boundaries with it.
My second thought is that in the idea of VR avatars as reverse demon possession, we humans are the demons in that scenario, able to cause harm through another avenue. But I think there are already so many ways to hide what harm you do behind a computer screen or ignorance or nice words that it doesn't strike me as "novel." In any space that people inhabit, there are going to be opportunities for humans to cause harm, and there are going to be opportunities for the Holy Spirit to work through Christians to do good. (This last thought makes me wonder if you could do a follow-up on the Holy Spirit working through Christians, and how any good works a Christian does are considered God's work not ours, and how this would be considered different from possession.)
I agree, which is why I tell people that good works in the sight of God are works the Holy Spirit does through me with my cooperation, since in the Bible we are told that our good works were already ordained for us to do them.
And so, I tell Catholics that we cannot complete our own sanctification or anyone else's by good works, prayer, or time in purgatory. For us to claim we can is to claim we are more powerful than Jesus, and He lied when He said, "It is finished!"
If the good works are God's to begin with, then obviously it is not something WE do to complete anyone's sanctification!
This is why I stopped playing video games; I found it promotes practicing things you would never do in real life. I'm speaking more to RPGs and FPS games, not things like Tetris or the classic Mario games.
I know accusing things of being gnostic is overplayed but ... sure sounds like Gnosticism to me! Avatars in a virtual reality world have no correlation to the persons' physical body. Another aspect is often the disconnect between the avatar and the body encourages people to put on a 'persona' or act in ways they wouldn't if their flesh-and-blood self were interacting with another flesh-and-blood self face to face. Also 2 Jn 12...
Wow, interesting connection. I have read two articles (which, unfortunately, I cannot now find) saying that the push toward homosexuality and transgenderism is related to an increase in demon possession. The thinking was that once you have “overcome” the natural use of your body that it is easier to pierce the veil and enter into the occult.
It is a small stretch to say that VR is a training system to get people to regularly disassociate their minds from their bodies. Kind of like transcendental meditation but with the hard work replaced by mindless entertainment. The goal being perhaps making people more receptive to demon possession. This would be hard to prove, I would think.
Certainly something to think about and be on the watch for.
Yes, I think this is right, that Virtual Reality is training, or practice, for disassociating your mind, or perhaps more specifically your soul, from your body. I don't think it is so much as reverse demon possession, as preparation for more demon possession.
Psychotic drugs are used for the same thing in some regions, but here they haven't really gained widespread adoption, so the devil has taken this technological approach, which is likely to gain much more traction.
One of the odd promises with both VR and drugs is that they promise to make you feel more open and connected with others, or with the world in general, but they really only turn you in on yourself, and away from your neighbor and your vocations.
Interesting idea. What troubles me more is the possibility of AI being run by demons. It seems possible to me. Sort of like “Maximum Overdrive” but at a very subtle level, so subtle you probably wouldn’t ever know it was there. This could conceivably interlock with the idea you mentioned
Isn't it the same old thing? Man believes he can be perfect. He creates his own avatar with a new set of behavior which he can claim as his own and (when he is living in the avatar) he can be perfect. In fact, (reverse demonic possession), the perfect (avatar) is being possessed by the evil man which created him. But what man creates and calls perfect is only man's fantasy. God is NOT a creation of man's making. We are a creation of God's making and we are nothing except that God chose to live in us, to redeem us and to call us His own.
It is definitely something to discuss. We have always seen people who seclude themselves from the world. A recluse, etc. And it’s not usually been a positive thing. The whole term “virtual reality” bothers me. For decades now, we have been blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The technological world has unfortunately taken that to a new level.
Not sure I see the inverse part - it seems to fit with the current sense of the world elite cadre that they so fear death that they are working to be able to "download" themselves into a computer (not sure if they see the human part going away at that point or the download being a "backup' to the real thing). I suspect that when our history is attached to something that has no soul (thus no concept of God and not having God's law written on it's heart), we will see the absolute evil that many of these are capable of if they reattach to some physical object (even if it is a machine carrying their computerized "self").
I think we all wish at times to be someone else - many stories of this sort have been written over the ages. The power to do this for good lies only in the eternal life that our Lord has promised us - life after death. All other avenues are certainly demonic, in my opinion.
After watching a series called Peripheral and also the obsession some of the tech industry have with AI... It struck me that are some wanting to progress humans to have their self data transferred to an artificial body and why? Obviously this would be demonic but why.... If i think to escape the confines of the flesh we'll a AI body is still part of the physical world and as we know on the Lords day the heavens and earth will be destroyed and a new heavens and earth will be.... Thrn I think are they trying to create a virtual world to transform self data into? But still it would be run or powered from the physical world so that too wouldn't last.... But it does seem like a kind of demonic idea to somehow remove something from its God given place or estate... But I can't quite grasp how or why.....
I see avatars and the metaverse as fueling our self centered sinful desires. We can use it to be something we are not, and act as god recreating ourselves as we wish we were, which is a self glorifying lie.
I hadn't really thought of it that way. Virtual reality just seemed like escapism and a total waste of time. It's for people who can't deal with life or have nothing better to do (which sure doesn't apply to me). I am not even familiar enough to think about avatars WITHIN virtual reality. Pretending to be someone else is a very ancient thing. Acting, drama, plays, movies, singing in operas and musicals, all are forms of pretending to be someone else. I don't recall that most Christians ever questioned that, although you get your weird sects that insist movies are evil. To me as a Lutheran they're weird, anyway.
Two thoughts. One is that I think many parts of our culture center around pretending to be somewhere else. Calling someone on the phone with their voice speaking in your ear is mimicking that they're next to you, saying those words. Watching a movie uses your senses to transport you to another place. Reading a book puts you inside the minds of other people. I think VR is similar, and is using more senses to increase the power of the experience. When handling something powerful, I think it's important to reflect on whether it's overpowering you, or whether you're able to maintain boundaries with it.
My second thought is that in the idea of VR avatars as reverse demon possession, we humans are the demons in that scenario, able to cause harm through another avenue. But I think there are already so many ways to hide what harm you do behind a computer screen or ignorance or nice words that it doesn't strike me as "novel." In any space that people inhabit, there are going to be opportunities for humans to cause harm, and there are going to be opportunities for the Holy Spirit to work through Christians to do good. (This last thought makes me wonder if you could do a follow-up on the Holy Spirit working through Christians, and how any good works a Christian does are considered God's work not ours, and how this would be considered different from possession.)
I agree, which is why I tell people that good works in the sight of God are works the Holy Spirit does through me with my cooperation, since in the Bible we are told that our good works were already ordained for us to do them.
And so, I tell Catholics that we cannot complete our own sanctification or anyone else's by good works, prayer, or time in purgatory. For us to claim we can is to claim we are more powerful than Jesus, and He lied when He said, "It is finished!"
If the good works are God's to begin with, then obviously it is not something WE do to complete anyone's sanctification!
This is why I stopped playing video games; I found it promotes practicing things you would never do in real life. I'm speaking more to RPGs and FPS games, not things like Tetris or the classic Mario games.
Exactly. And hey, if you get shot and killed, just respawn. It cheapens the value of life.
I know accusing things of being gnostic is overplayed but ... sure sounds like Gnosticism to me! Avatars in a virtual reality world have no correlation to the persons' physical body. Another aspect is often the disconnect between the avatar and the body encourages people to put on a 'persona' or act in ways they wouldn't if their flesh-and-blood self were interacting with another flesh-and-blood self face to face. Also 2 Jn 12...
Wow, interesting connection. I have read two articles (which, unfortunately, I cannot now find) saying that the push toward homosexuality and transgenderism is related to an increase in demon possession. The thinking was that once you have “overcome” the natural use of your body that it is easier to pierce the veil and enter into the occult.
It is a small stretch to say that VR is a training system to get people to regularly disassociate their minds from their bodies. Kind of like transcendental meditation but with the hard work replaced by mindless entertainment. The goal being perhaps making people more receptive to demon possession. This would be hard to prove, I would think.
Certainly something to think about and be on the watch for.
Yes, I think this is right, that Virtual Reality is training, or practice, for disassociating your mind, or perhaps more specifically your soul, from your body. I don't think it is so much as reverse demon possession, as preparation for more demon possession.
Psychotic drugs are used for the same thing in some regions, but here they haven't really gained widespread adoption, so the devil has taken this technological approach, which is likely to gain much more traction.
One of the odd promises with both VR and drugs is that they promise to make you feel more open and connected with others, or with the world in general, but they really only turn you in on yourself, and away from your neighbor and your vocations.
"Remember, what nuts always free." Is that what they call us now in theological circles? "What Nuts"
Interesting idea. What troubles me more is the possibility of AI being run by demons. It seems possible to me. Sort of like “Maximum Overdrive” but at a very subtle level, so subtle you probably wouldn’t ever know it was there. This could conceivably interlock with the idea you mentioned
Isn't it the same old thing? Man believes he can be perfect. He creates his own avatar with a new set of behavior which he can claim as his own and (when he is living in the avatar) he can be perfect. In fact, (reverse demonic possession), the perfect (avatar) is being possessed by the evil man which created him. But what man creates and calls perfect is only man's fantasy. God is NOT a creation of man's making. We are a creation of God's making and we are nothing except that God chose to live in us, to redeem us and to call us His own.
It is definitely something to discuss. We have always seen people who seclude themselves from the world. A recluse, etc. And it’s not usually been a positive thing. The whole term “virtual reality” bothers me. For decades now, we have been blurring the lines between fantasy and reality. The technological world has unfortunately taken that to a new level.
Please expand on this. I would love to know more!
Not sure I see the inverse part - it seems to fit with the current sense of the world elite cadre that they so fear death that they are working to be able to "download" themselves into a computer (not sure if they see the human part going away at that point or the download being a "backup' to the real thing). I suspect that when our history is attached to something that has no soul (thus no concept of God and not having God's law written on it's heart), we will see the absolute evil that many of these are capable of if they reattach to some physical object (even if it is a machine carrying their computerized "self").
I think we all wish at times to be someone else - many stories of this sort have been written over the ages. The power to do this for good lies only in the eternal life that our Lord has promised us - life after death. All other avenues are certainly demonic, in my opinion.
After watching a series called Peripheral and also the obsession some of the tech industry have with AI... It struck me that are some wanting to progress humans to have their self data transferred to an artificial body and why? Obviously this would be demonic but why.... If i think to escape the confines of the flesh we'll a AI body is still part of the physical world and as we know on the Lords day the heavens and earth will be destroyed and a new heavens and earth will be.... Thrn I think are they trying to create a virtual world to transform self data into? But still it would be run or powered from the physical world so that too wouldn't last.... But it does seem like a kind of demonic idea to somehow remove something from its God given place or estate... But I can't quite grasp how or why.....
I see avatars and the metaverse as fueling our self centered sinful desires. We can use it to be something we are not, and act as god recreating ourselves as we wish we were, which is a self glorifying lie.
Unfortunately, another escape from reality. A new "drug" drawing people away from the Truth.
Away from our assigned vocations...
I hadn't really thought of it that way. Virtual reality just seemed like escapism and a total waste of time. It's for people who can't deal with life or have nothing better to do (which sure doesn't apply to me). I am not even familiar enough to think about avatars WITHIN virtual reality. Pretending to be someone else is a very ancient thing. Acting, drama, plays, movies, singing in operas and musicals, all are forms of pretending to be someone else. I don't recall that most Christians ever questioned that, although you get your weird sects that insist movies are evil. To me as a Lutheran they're weird, anyway.
wow! the devil prowls around like a roaring lion seeking who to devour!
Interesting. Have you heard of Ivan Illich? He talks about a similar idea in one of his lecture series: https://youtu.be/KF8wZmmksjw
He talks about how a new level and type of evil is inaugurated/made possible by Christ’s Incarnation, and loops technology into that.