I grew up Charismatic and was never explicitly taught any eschatology. 5 years ago someone introduced me to Chuck Missler's audio teachings and I became a premil dispensationalist, of course with Missler's unique "alien deception" twist. It was fun and interesting at first, but the "newspaper in one hand, bible in the other" exercise became exhausting and confusing.
I started attending a Lutheran chuch in April and learned (among many other wonderful things) the simplicity of biblical eschatology. I'm not burdened anymore by the latest wars and rumors of wars, news about aliens, how this person or that person might be the Antichrist, or whatever the United Nations decides to do or not do. Christ will return in glory to judge the living and the dead. Until that day, or until I fall asleep, I'm comforted by His word and sacrement. God be praised.
Thanks for this Pastor. So many Christians are caught up in this dispensational, speculative, unbiblical nonsense. It gets tiresome having to listen to it and trying to explain to people who don’t want to hear that the true Israel is Christ and His church. The True Vine and the branches.
"The withdrawing of the restrainer and revelation of the man of lawlessness. Prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, fulfilled in the fall of Rome (~476 AD), and the rise of the papacy. "
Point 4 of Thesis 1 would seem to be debatable. This point is more a tradition Lutheran assumption (historical interpretation) about the "man of lawlessness" being the pope/papacy and the fall of Rome. This point has much akin to the various interpretations made with some of the difficult symbols in the book of Revelation. In the West we see the rapid wane of authentic Christianity's influence upon the general culture so an argument could be made that the Church (by the power of the Holy Spirit) is the restrainer and that the apostasy of the Church as a whole would usher back in the pre-Noahic conditions we seem to be heading toward (a world wide state of lawlessness in regards to the human conscience and God's revealed Law.)
Therefore, I can't see this point 4 being "checked-off" as the pope/Rome unlike all the other points of the thesis. The spirit of the world is unbelief but the apostasy of the Church (certainly happening in the West) is another matter. Jesus expresses the same in a strange conclusion of the parable of the woman seeking justice in Luke 18, "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" This "coming" sounds like a reference to Christ's return? This parable is tied to whether Christ's followers persist in prayer... Could it be that Christ indicates that the persistence of His Church for justice would be in question at His return?
Another point concerning "lawlessness" is that popes of the past had a different/added-unto "law" and no/little Gospel. A pope (apostate replacement church) of the now/future will not even pay lip-service to God's Law unlike those past popes of the Middle Ages. The key may be in the Greek word that corresponds to "lawlessness" in conjunction also with the who/what is of the "restrainer." Likewise, the exact nature of the "restrainer" is also largely debatable as well.
Wicked cultures spread their evil when lawlessness abounds as in Judges when "everyone did what was right in his own eyes."
In contrast, previous point concerning the prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem has multiple gospel accounts where Christ speaks clearly about Jerusalem being surrounded and destroyed and the temple destroyed completely. This clearly happened in history in AD70.
The parable of the 10 virgins seems to indicate that half the church will be unwise when the cry is heard and they go out to meet Jesus, lacking the Holy Spirit (oil) i.e. Sacraments. The shutting of the door is Christ return. This seems to correlate well with current trends with the Christian church. I come from a baptist background where the Holy Spirit is captured, not received by means of Grace. I liken this to the ten virgins parable. To me, at least half the church or more are walking around with no oil right now and is starting to seek out what means of Grace really is because of pride and despair within the church. Am I correct in interpreting this parable in a confessional Lutheran sacramental type way?
Pastor thank you so much for the outline with all the scripture references. It is great!! Hoping my life long Lutheran friends will read and understand. So many are surrounded by evangelicals in their kids schools, neighbors and even attending their bible studies, they are becoming confused. This will be a good refresher.
Never understood why so many people think they are going to figure it all out ahead of time. When you point them to these verses that say they won't know the hour or the day, they say yes, but it doesn't say no one will know the week! <sigh> I would ask what you think about the mark of the beast in Revelation 13. I don't know of anything that fulfilled this one, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been fulfilled. Thanks for all you do!
The old error of millennialist pops up every 10-15 years. The reading of The Revelation of Jesus Christ is so often used by these headline escapologists because they can make it say anything they say not recognizing this unique style of literature or a proper understanding of Old Test symbols and numerology references. Thanks for the great overview. I often remember that “in Christ were fulfilled all the promises of God”
Having been brought up Baptist the end time prophesy books were a dime a dozen. Everyone had a different theory. By now theyd all be proven wrong. If we were pointing to the stuff they think are a sign we could figure it out and God is beyond figuring out.
Thank you for addressing this rolling over to the end times idea and the idea that it is Gods Will that events are this bad because its Gods will. We are deliberatley being rolled by the global elites loosing are liberty and God given freedoms in a bit by bit fashion from so many angles we cant respond impactful ly Pray for all of Christianity to know Gods will in how to resist this creepy take over of Americanna
My dispensationalist grandfather was a great advocate for determining exactly when “the Rapture” would happen. As he kept moving the date farther out I began to realize that for him it was an ego trip. He wanted to be alive when it happened... BUT I also noticed he showed no interest or concern for my father who did not yet appear to be saved, nor my aunt! What an increased awareness of conditions described near the “end times” should do is emphasize to us that He IS going to come! This should then emphasize that the assignment of the Great Commission is still in affect!!! There are many, even in our own country, who have not heard the true Gospel... and many who are hungry and searching for it, especially GenZ’s! They, like myself, are turned off by hypocritical dispensationalist dogma. On the other hand, too many Lutherans believe in discipleship by genealogy... “My parents were Lutheran so I was baptized at two weeks - so I’m good! Not your story? Well sucks to be you!” 😉 (The most enthusiastic people for the LCMS teaching of the Gospel who I encounter did not grow up in the LCMS...) Similar conditions as described about the end times should just make us realize there may not be too much time left to do the work that still needs to be done! 🙏
How can you say the Gospel has been preached in all the world? There are many many tribes and people groups who have never heard the Gospel. I grew up in one as a missionary kid in the jungle of Indonesia.
Take a look at those three passages that I referenced. They use the same language that Jesus does. How do we understand that historically I don't know, just matching up the Scriptures.
Thanks, Pastor. This is one more thing I have to unlearn, coming out of non-denom (Baptist) theology into Lutheran theology. Scripture interprets Scripture; don't base an entire teaching on one unclear verse; etc.
I need to interpret Matthew 24:14 the way the early church did. They expected and longed for the imminent coming of the Lord for His church and did not teach that He had to wait until all nations had heard the gospel. They were busy preaching to both Jews and Gentiles, and yet still lived and taught, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that His coming was 'at hand'. They would meet each other and say 'Maranatha!' which means 'Our Lord, come!' Many verses speak of this hope and expectation.
So while I'm still here my 'commission' is the great commission given by Jesus Himself, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Mat 28:19-20
God be Praise. I’m waiting for this kind of presentation for a long time--to counter Pentecostal churches. Pentcoastalists’ obsessions over rapture need to be addressed. Although they are Christian, they hold Pentecostal religion much as theology of glory stands out without preaching Christ crucified. No matter how hard I tried to minister my wife on “don’t know hours” arguments, it seems like she cannot abandon her Assembly of God.
I often use point 3 in Thesis 2. I also used to say that whenever those false prophets/teachers give dates I can cross it off and know that won't be the day because none of us know the day or hour. The cold war was the end of the world, WWII was the end of the world, the plague was the end of the world, etc, etc. Maybe, without naming names, address the end times preachers recent sayings/takes on the Israel-Gaza situation. So many are caught up in that thinking and confused by Revelation. I know many of us have been in that place. Maybe bring up past prophesies that didn't come true.
I grew up Charismatic and was never explicitly taught any eschatology. 5 years ago someone introduced me to Chuck Missler's audio teachings and I became a premil dispensationalist, of course with Missler's unique "alien deception" twist. It was fun and interesting at first, but the "newspaper in one hand, bible in the other" exercise became exhausting and confusing.
I started attending a Lutheran chuch in April and learned (among many other wonderful things) the simplicity of biblical eschatology. I'm not burdened anymore by the latest wars and rumors of wars, news about aliens, how this person or that person might be the Antichrist, or whatever the United Nations decides to do or not do. Christ will return in glory to judge the living and the dead. Until that day, or until I fall asleep, I'm comforted by His word and sacrement. God be praised.
Thank you Pastor, for all the work you do!
Thanks for this Pastor. So many Christians are caught up in this dispensational, speculative, unbiblical nonsense. It gets tiresome having to listen to it and trying to explain to people who don’t want to hear that the true Israel is Christ and His church. The True Vine and the branches.
Thank you for this outline Pastor. At work I'm surrounded be evangelicals & dispensationalists, so this is all I'm hearing about at work.
Please let us know when the video will be coming out.
Blessings to you in Christ.
"The withdrawing of the restrainer and revelation of the man of lawlessness. Prophesied in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, fulfilled in the fall of Rome (~476 AD), and the rise of the papacy. "
Point 4 of Thesis 1 would seem to be debatable. This point is more a tradition Lutheran assumption (historical interpretation) about the "man of lawlessness" being the pope/papacy and the fall of Rome. This point has much akin to the various interpretations made with some of the difficult symbols in the book of Revelation. In the West we see the rapid wane of authentic Christianity's influence upon the general culture so an argument could be made that the Church (by the power of the Holy Spirit) is the restrainer and that the apostasy of the Church as a whole would usher back in the pre-Noahic conditions we seem to be heading toward (a world wide state of lawlessness in regards to the human conscience and God's revealed Law.)
Therefore, I can't see this point 4 being "checked-off" as the pope/Rome unlike all the other points of the thesis. The spirit of the world is unbelief but the apostasy of the Church (certainly happening in the West) is another matter. Jesus expresses the same in a strange conclusion of the parable of the woman seeking justice in Luke 18, "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?" This "coming" sounds like a reference to Christ's return? This parable is tied to whether Christ's followers persist in prayer... Could it be that Christ indicates that the persistence of His Church for justice would be in question at His return?
Another point concerning "lawlessness" is that popes of the past had a different/added-unto "law" and no/little Gospel. A pope (apostate replacement church) of the now/future will not even pay lip-service to God's Law unlike those past popes of the Middle Ages. The key may be in the Greek word that corresponds to "lawlessness" in conjunction also with the who/what is of the "restrainer." Likewise, the exact nature of the "restrainer" is also largely debatable as well.
Wicked cultures spread their evil when lawlessness abounds as in Judges when "everyone did what was right in his own eyes."
In contrast, previous point concerning the prediction of the destruction of Jerusalem has multiple gospel accounts where Christ speaks clearly about Jerusalem being surrounded and destroyed and the temple destroyed completely. This clearly happened in history in AD70.
The parable of the 10 virgins seems to indicate that half the church will be unwise when the cry is heard and they go out to meet Jesus, lacking the Holy Spirit (oil) i.e. Sacraments. The shutting of the door is Christ return. This seems to correlate well with current trends with the Christian church. I come from a baptist background where the Holy Spirit is captured, not received by means of Grace. I liken this to the ten virgins parable. To me, at least half the church or more are walking around with no oil right now and is starting to seek out what means of Grace really is because of pride and despair within the church. Am I correct in interpreting this parable in a confessional Lutheran sacramental type way?
Pastor thank you so much for the outline with all the scripture references. It is great!! Hoping my life long Lutheran friends will read and understand. So many are surrounded by evangelicals in their kids schools, neighbors and even attending their bible studies, they are becoming confused. This will be a good refresher.
Never understood why so many people think they are going to figure it all out ahead of time. When you point them to these verses that say they won't know the hour or the day, they say yes, but it doesn't say no one will know the week! <sigh> I would ask what you think about the mark of the beast in Revelation 13. I don't know of anything that fulfilled this one, but that doesn't mean it couldn't have been fulfilled. Thanks for all you do!
The old error of millennialist pops up every 10-15 years. The reading of The Revelation of Jesus Christ is so often used by these headline escapologists because they can make it say anything they say not recognizing this unique style of literature or a proper understanding of Old Test symbols and numerology references. Thanks for the great overview. I often remember that “in Christ were fulfilled all the promises of God”
Having been brought up Baptist the end time prophesy books were a dime a dozen. Everyone had a different theory. By now theyd all be proven wrong. If we were pointing to the stuff they think are a sign we could figure it out and God is beyond figuring out.
Thank you for addressing this rolling over to the end times idea and the idea that it is Gods Will that events are this bad because its Gods will. We are deliberatley being rolled by the global elites loosing are liberty and God given freedoms in a bit by bit fashion from so many angles we cant respond impactful ly Pray for all of Christianity to know Gods will in how to resist this creepy take over of Americanna
My dispensationalist grandfather was a great advocate for determining exactly when “the Rapture” would happen. As he kept moving the date farther out I began to realize that for him it was an ego trip. He wanted to be alive when it happened... BUT I also noticed he showed no interest or concern for my father who did not yet appear to be saved, nor my aunt! What an increased awareness of conditions described near the “end times” should do is emphasize to us that He IS going to come! This should then emphasize that the assignment of the Great Commission is still in affect!!! There are many, even in our own country, who have not heard the true Gospel... and many who are hungry and searching for it, especially GenZ’s! They, like myself, are turned off by hypocritical dispensationalist dogma. On the other hand, too many Lutherans believe in discipleship by genealogy... “My parents were Lutheran so I was baptized at two weeks - so I’m good! Not your story? Well sucks to be you!” 😉 (The most enthusiastic people for the LCMS teaching of the Gospel who I encounter did not grow up in the LCMS...) Similar conditions as described about the end times should just make us realize there may not be too much time left to do the work that still needs to be done! 🙏
Blessings to you, Pastor Bryan!
How can you say the Gospel has been preached in all the world? There are many many tribes and people groups who have never heard the Gospel. I grew up in one as a missionary kid in the jungle of Indonesia.
Take a look at those three passages that I referenced. They use the same language that Jesus does. How do we understand that historically I don't know, just matching up the Scriptures.
Thanks, Pastor. This is one more thing I have to unlearn, coming out of non-denom (Baptist) theology into Lutheran theology. Scripture interprets Scripture; don't base an entire teaching on one unclear verse; etc.
I need to interpret Matthew 24:14 the way the early church did. They expected and longed for the imminent coming of the Lord for His church and did not teach that He had to wait until all nations had heard the gospel. They were busy preaching to both Jews and Gentiles, and yet still lived and taught, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that His coming was 'at hand'. They would meet each other and say 'Maranatha!' which means 'Our Lord, come!' Many verses speak of this hope and expectation.
So while I'm still here my 'commission' is the great commission given by Jesus Himself, "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Mat 28:19-20
Many thanks for that pastor, it's much needed
Good explanation of what to expect. I know it seems like it’s almost here but only God the father knows the time. We just have to be patient
God be Praise. I’m waiting for this kind of presentation for a long time--to counter Pentecostal churches. Pentcoastalists’ obsessions over rapture need to be addressed. Although they are Christian, they hold Pentecostal religion much as theology of glory stands out without preaching Christ crucified. No matter how hard I tried to minister my wife on “don’t know hours” arguments, it seems like she cannot abandon her Assembly of God.
I often use point 3 in Thesis 2. I also used to say that whenever those false prophets/teachers give dates I can cross it off and know that won't be the day because none of us know the day or hour. The cold war was the end of the world, WWII was the end of the world, the plague was the end of the world, etc, etc. Maybe, without naming names, address the end times preachers recent sayings/takes on the Israel-Gaza situation. So many are caught up in that thinking and confused by Revelation. I know many of us have been in that place. Maybe bring up past prophesies that didn't come true.