JWM in all of his activity responded to an inquiry I made of him in a letter by calling me at home one night. I was and am a nobody but he was very compassionate and helpful. Thank God for his ministry and faithfulness. I look forward to meeting him in the Church Triumphant.
- Lutherans think they are saved by baptism, not faith
- Lutherans don’t care about spreading the gospel
- Lutherans are too rigid or work against unity (ex: closed communion, or won’t work with other Christian groups)
- if Lutherans had true faith, why are they so “boring” at church/if the sacraments do what you say they do, why is nobody “excited” during the service
Lutherans are just Catholic light. Lutherans don't have the holy spirit (usually meant that they don't speak in tongues). Lutherans don't do or care about evangelism.
These are Lutheran stereotypes given by fellow Lutherans.
- Lutheran hymns are dirges and need to be replaced with happy/clappy tunes or Getty hymns galore (please play excerpts from the joyful Lutheran hymns and listen to the Germans play them with much more upbeat tempos)
- Lutherans are stodgy, unfriendly Germans and we need to adapt a church growth model of evangelism to counter this
- the Lutheran Divine Service is accessible to only those with a German background (actually it's Christian culture) and needs to be changed to reach out to those of different ethnic backgrounds (that's what social events/ potlucks and to some degree church architecture/art/melodies are for!)
"Lutherans don't believe in miracles" -- I'm not sure how to answer Christians who root their faith in the wonders and healings that they witness or receive. Sometimes we say "in the modern era God usually works healing through the gifts of medicine," but I don't think this really satisfies what the charismatic is after.
I had the privilege of meeting Dr. Montgomery. He took us to a French restaurant, and then complimented me on my intelligence because I could order food in Russian. He also had a conversation with the chef there, in French. I was able to use information from tape recordings of his lectures to lead a woman to the foot of the cross. She became a Christian. I am glad he is with the Lord, but he will be sorely missed.
Nobody has apostolic succession. People who think they do are deceiving themselves. God did not intend for the Apostles to be replaced. To be an Apostle, you had to have met the Lord in person.
It's not an argument about replacing the apostles, but about continuing their authority. And to say, "You don't have apostolic succession, either. So there!", is just a revisit of the argument I'd originally posted from the Lutheran side.
You're being snarky. I wasn't. I simply stated the facts. God could do all of this Himself, but He chose to use human beings, specifically Christians (priesthood of all believers) to be His physical presence on earth for all those in need, Christian or otherwise, financially, healthwise, spiritually. In so doing, God granted Christians certain authorities: to preach the gospel in and out of season, and to reassure the repentant that their sins are forgiven. That is why He commanded the disciples to loose or bind sin. In Jesus' name, to those who sincerely repent, as for forgiveness. Since it is conditional on repentance, and only God knows the heart, it operates only when they repent. It is an AUTHORITY which God passed on to us.
Even baptisms done properly with the word of God done by UNBELIEVERS are efficacious, because it is not who administers baptism that makes it baptism, but the word of God with the water. Otherwise, no one would have any assurance he received a valid baptism.
You won't persuade people by being snarky. And when the Bible speaks, it overrules your statements contrary to it.
Agreed the internet is bad for discussions. But I looked over what I said, and I don't see anything that seems snarky to me. I simply stated facts. If you think there is something specific, please point it out. Otherwise, I would have to discount your comment.
I have a few!
- Lutherans don’t have the Holy Spirit (or “aren’t born again”)
- Lutherans don’t believe in conversion
- Lutherans believe in cheap grace
- Lutherans are liberal
- Lutherans don’t do evangelism
Was about to post some of these
Myth: Lutherans are Catholic - lite
Lutherans don't have the Holy Spirit.
I've heard this in Pentecostal circles (esp. Oneness groups). The testimony that they grew up Lutheran and didn't know the Spirit until...
JWM in all of his activity responded to an inquiry I made of him in a letter by calling me at home one night. I was and am a nobody but he was very compassionate and helpful. Thank God for his ministry and faithfulness. I look forward to meeting him in the Church Triumphant.
- Lutherans think they are saved by baptism, not faith
- Lutherans don’t care about spreading the gospel
- Lutherans are too rigid or work against unity (ex: closed communion, or won’t work with other Christian groups)
- if Lutherans had true faith, why are they so “boring” at church/if the sacraments do what you say they do, why is nobody “excited” during the service
- Lutherans just want to be Catholic
John Warwick Montgomery's funeral was yesterday in France. If anyone would like to watch it, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/live/ZhZ790zxgjA?si=ViX2SjDG9Ehh2psV
Lutherans elevate Luther’s teachings above Scripture.
Lutherans don’t believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
Lutherans believe infant Baptism means one cannot ever fall away from the faith (I think some Lutherans also believe this).
Lutherans don’t (can’t?) teach ethics. It’s all forgiven anyways, e.g. antinomians.
Lutherans are just Catholic light. Lutherans don't have the holy spirit (usually meant that they don't speak in tongues). Lutherans don't do or care about evangelism.
These are Lutheran stereotypes given by fellow Lutherans.
- Lutheran hymns are dirges and need to be replaced with happy/clappy tunes or Getty hymns galore (please play excerpts from the joyful Lutheran hymns and listen to the Germans play them with much more upbeat tempos)
- Lutherans are stodgy, unfriendly Germans and we need to adapt a church growth model of evangelism to counter this
- the Lutheran Divine Service is accessible to only those with a German background (actually it's Christian culture) and needs to be changed to reach out to those of different ethnic backgrounds (that's what social events/ potlucks and to some degree church architecture/art/melodies are for!)
Myth: Lutherans don't have spiritual experiences
Myth: Lutherans are the frozen chosen.
Myth: Lutherans are cessastionists (meaning we don't believe in any gift of the Spirit or in miracles/tongues/etc)
"Lutherans don't believe in miracles" -- I'm not sure how to answer Christians who root their faith in the wonders and healings that they witness or receive. Sometimes we say "in the modern era God usually works healing through the gifts of medicine," but I don't think this really satisfies what the charismatic is after.
I had the privilege of meeting Dr. Montgomery. He took us to a French restaurant, and then complimented me on my intelligence because I could order food in Russian. He also had a conversation with the chef there, in French. I was able to use information from tape recordings of his lectures to lead a woman to the foot of the cross. She became a Christian. I am glad he is with the Lord, but he will be sorely missed.
Lutherans do not have apostolic succession and therefore are just "playing church", unlike our Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox brothers.
Nobody has apostolic succession. People who think they do are deceiving themselves. God did not intend for the Apostles to be replaced. To be an Apostle, you had to have met the Lord in person.
It's not an argument about replacing the apostles, but about continuing their authority. And to say, "You don't have apostolic succession, either. So there!", is just a revisit of the argument I'd originally posted from the Lutheran side.
You're being snarky. I wasn't. I simply stated the facts. God could do all of this Himself, but He chose to use human beings, specifically Christians (priesthood of all believers) to be His physical presence on earth for all those in need, Christian or otherwise, financially, healthwise, spiritually. In so doing, God granted Christians certain authorities: to preach the gospel in and out of season, and to reassure the repentant that their sins are forgiven. That is why He commanded the disciples to loose or bind sin. In Jesus' name, to those who sincerely repent, as for forgiveness. Since it is conditional on repentance, and only God knows the heart, it operates only when they repent. It is an AUTHORITY which God passed on to us.
Even baptisms done properly with the word of God done by UNBELIEVERS are efficacious, because it is not who administers baptism that makes it baptism, but the word of God with the water. Otherwise, no one would have any assurance he received a valid baptism.
You won't persuade people by being snarky. And when the Bible speaks, it overrules your statements contrary to it.
Respectfully, you also come across as snarky, though you may not intend it. The Internet is bad for discussions.
Agreed the internet is bad for discussions. But I looked over what I said, and I don't see anything that seems snarky to me. I simply stated facts. If you think there is something specific, please point it out. Otherwise, I would have to discount your comment.
How is the authority continued?
That's the question, for sure!
MYTH: Lutherans like William Metz.
Fact: Lutherans “love thine enemies,” Metz included - we just don’t *like* him any. 🕺🏼🤔